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Bufferbloat

  • 3 november 2019
  • 14 reacties
  • 929 keer bekeken

  • Gedreven Ontdekker
  • 7 reacties

Hi I am an Expat here in NL for work hence this post will be in English,

I have the 250Mbit Ziggo Package

I am experiencing bufferbloat on my network it was hard to identify at first but whenever I start using BW intense services together my ping grows exponentially sometimes hitting 1800ms. My bandwidth is fine but the lag makes online gaming and VOIP while downloading impossible.

Firstly my network setup and how I have ruled out my intermediary equipment.
Eth PC → GB L3 Switch → ConnectBox 

To eliminate the switch from being a possible issue I plugged directly into the router for the below experiments. I also sometimes ran fast.com and other speedtests on seperate devices while ping plotting and saw the same results.

Experiment1 - pingplot to 8.8.8.8 (no intense net services, no AV): ranges from 10-25ms
Experiment2 - pingplot to 8.8.8.8 WHILE running a fast.com speedtest: ping quickly grows to 750-1800ms
Experiment3 - pingplot while streaming downloads, using VOIP in parallel: ping quickly grows to 750-1800ms 
Experiment4 - Using VOIP in alone: ping ranges from 10-50ms

I will attach some screenshots as evidence aswell as what logs I can.

fig.1 below (plotting ping while peak begins while running fast.com speedtest)

 

fig2. ( my dslreport, more details -> http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/56036469 )

I was surprised at this “idle” result as when the test was running I observed 0-15ms until the download section of the test and then for the remainder of the test the bufferbloat remained high and grew even after the download section. 

 

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID
1 698000000 3 38 256 qam 13
2 602000000 3.5 38 256 qam 1
3 610000000 4 40 256 qam 2
4 618000000 3.5 40 256 qam 3
5 626000000 3.4 38 256 qam 4
6 634000000 2.9 38 256 qam 5
7 642000000 2.9 38 256 qam 6
8 650000000 3 38 256 qam 7
9 658000000 2.7 38 256 qam 8
10 666000000 3.4 40 256 qam 9
11 674000000 3.4 38 256 qam 10
12 682000000 3.5 38 256 qam 11
13 690000000 3.4 38 256 qam 12
14 706000000 3 38 256 qam 14
15 714000000 2.4 38 256 qam 15
16 722000000 2.7 38 256 qam 16
17 730000000 2.2 38 256 qam 17
18 738000000 2.5 38 256 qam 18
19 746000000 2.2 38 256 qam 19
20 754000000 2 38 256 qam 20
21 762000000 2.2 40 256 qam 21
22 770000000 1.5 38 256 qam 22
23 778000000 1.9 38 256 qam 23
24 786000000 1.7 38 256 qam 24


 

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
1 Locked 38.9 68 23
2 Locked 38.9 126 20
3 Locked 40.3 26 35
4 Locked 40.3 56 21
5 Locked 38.9 62 25
6 Locked 38.9 113 21
7 Locked 38.9 220 20
8 Locked 38.9 36 23
9 Locked 38.6 89 19
10 Locked 40.3 58 23
11 Locked 38.9 61 23
12 Locked 38.9 46 23
13 Locked 38.9 48 23
14 Locked 38.9 29 20
15 Locked 38.6 53 24
16 Locked 38.9 47 26
17 Locked 38.9 85 19
18 Locked 38.9 51 27
19 Locked 38.9 71 23
20 Locked 38.6 96 21
21 Locked 40.3 56 20
22 Locked 38.9 108 20
23 Locked 38.9 52 25
24 Locked 38.9 97 21

 

Cable Modem Status
Item Status Comments
Acquired Downstream Channel (Hz)

698000000

Locked

Ranged Upstream Channel (Hz)

36000006

Locked

Provisioning State

Online

 

I would appreciate any advice on how to cirumvent this.
 

icon

Best beantwoord door ArieKanarie 6 november 2019, 16:06

Like@BijnaWakker I use a traffic shaping router based on OpenWRT to fix the bufferbloat on my Ziggo connection and provide bandwidth fairness to all devices in my home.

Your idle ping result from DSLReports seems broken, since the idle ping on pingplotter is fine, so it’s great that you included the pingplotter screenshot.

 

My suggested setup for a home setup where downloads won’t interfere with VoIP or gaming:

Bekijk origineel

Dit topic is gesloten. Staat je antwoord hier niet bij, stel dan je vraag in een nieuw topic.

14 Reacties

To continue on this topic,

Today I called Ziggo and spoke to an engineer. Although helpful we went through everything and he said he’d never heard of pingplotter and doesn’t see the difference between how my fast.com and dslreports get 700+ ping and speedtest.net only gets 10ms ping.

I tried to explain about how the latter unlike the first does not use loaded 

“Fast.com differentiates between unloaded and loaded latency; Netflix explains the difference in the following way:

Unloaded latency measures the round-trip time of a request when there is no other traffic present on a user’s network, while loaded latency measures the round-trip time when data-heavy applications are being used on the network.

Netflix notes that big differences between loaded and unloaded latency values could be the cause for issues that users experience when they stream video or use other bandwidth-taxing activities on their devices.”

He offered me a new cable and some network data for my mobile phone which was nice but ultimately I asked him to send an engineer. He warned me that if it resulted in it being my equipment I would pay the price.

I then asked if we could go over what we can to ensure this doesn't happen, and to make the situation completely different I booted up a laptop connected to the router via eth without any other devices and experienced the same issue. 

Hopefully, the Engineer can rectify the issue and understands my side of what is going on. 

 

 



DslReport from today
 

With the Connectbox alone I had terrible bufferbloat. I put it in bridge mode and use OpenWRT on a Netgear R7800 behind it with SQM enabled, and now I get a reliable “A” rating on the DSLreports test, and have no more problems with using VoIP while other people in the house are streaming videos or whatever they get up to. €150 well spent. 

You could probably get similar results for half the money using something like a Mikrotik hAP ac2, if you’re willing to learn how to configure Mikrotik devices.

Can you place your upstream values from your modem with a screenshot?

And can you put a picture here of the first place where Ziggo enters your house with possible splitters and amplifiers?

Reputatie 5
Badge +5

Like@BijnaWakker I use a traffic shaping router based on OpenWRT to fix the bufferbloat on my Ziggo connection and provide bandwidth fairness to all devices in my home.

Your idle ping result from DSLReports seems broken, since the idle ping on pingplotter is fine, so it’s great that you included the pingplotter screenshot.

 

My suggested setup for a home setup where downloads won’t interfere with VoIP or gaming:

Can you place your upstream values from your modem with a screenshot?

And can you put a picture here of the first place where Ziggo enters your house with possible splitters and amplifiers?

 

So on this note, the engineer came today and he identified that fiber enters into my electricity cupboard outside in the hallway of my apartment building. He said this extra coax length will be losing me some dB. He also replaced all my connectors it seems saying they were old. Sadly even after him resetting router etc, the issue has still persisted.

Here are my upstream values.
 

 

I think I will take the advise on the bridging mode I have a Netgear Router but it is the DSL version of the R7000 the D7000 which does not support openWRT sadly. I will try bridging to it in its default firmware first although I do intend on switching to OpenWRT.

Rang Ziggo to set into bridge mode, Ziggo now thinks the issue is definitely a bottleneck between my router and the entry point in the electricity cupboard.

 

I decided to go with bridging anyway and without any traffic shaping or sqm I still have the issue. No DD-WRT is currently available for my router. I am unsure whether to spend the money on a new router that I can easily change the firmware of or to spend it getting my connectbox installed in the cupboard.

 

To get it fixed I would need to get and engineer and pay the fees starting from 30 euro then additional every 15 minutes aswell as paying for materials.

Maybe you can do it yourself in the cupboard.

When you place here photo's of the situation there and at the other connection.

We can help you to solve it.

Reputatie 5
Badge +5

Rang Ziggo to set into bridge mode, Ziggo now thinks the issue is definitely a bottleneck between my router and the entry point in the electricity cupboard.

 

I decided to go with bridging anyway and without any traffic shaping or sqm I still have the issue. No DD-WRT is currently available for my router. I am unsure whether to spend the money on a new router that I can easily change the firmware of or to spend it getting my connectbox installed in the cupboard.

 

To get it fixed I would need to get and engineer and pay the fees starting from 30 euro then additional every 15 minutes aswell as paying for materials.

 

Without a router that does SQM, you won’t fix this bufferbloat issue.

To follow up on the advice from those in the thread I got an SQM module onto my router and started trying some various settings. 

I’m using a open source module that was originally made for DD-WRT and CeroWRT Routers.

I read through some information on bifferbloat.net and from the CeroWRT pages and I took a realistic speedtest and entered about 85% of what im actually getting into the bandwidth. Unfortunately I got no change after applying and checking the logs to see if it was infact enabled. 

If anyone has some reccomendations on settings it would be a big help. Right now my topology is 
(Connectbox in bridge mode → D7000 AC1900 → endoints)


I realise not everyone will have the same layout so I will add some of the options I get below.

 

Under the Disc Algorithm option I get two choices (Fq_Codel, Sfq )

Under Shaper Algorith I get (Htb, Hfsc, Tbf)

For the prioritization schemes I have (Diffserv, Classful, Shaper only)

For the Filtering Classification the choices on both are (N-Tier Priority or Undifferentiated)


 

Reputatie 5
Badge +5

fq_codel, htb, diffserv options are fine. 

 

If you enable this module and cap the speed at say 100Mbit, does that actually limit the speed in the DSLReports speedtest to 100Mbit or less?

Could you for example run at 100/10 and do the DSLReports speedtest and share the results here?

wow so I ran it at 100/10 and it works perfectly ?

No crazy ping ! 

AreiKanarie you are my hero, I suppose ill just have to tweak it to find a sweet spot ?

With the settings on 180/18 I can see it struggling slightly, on the DSL report occasionally it hikes up to 400ms but then immediately comes back down around 40ms 

 

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/56913774

Reputatie 5
Badge +5

I’m surprised you have to drop it to 100 down for perfect results and 180/18 was just ‘ok’. That would either mean the router can’t keep up (it’s a dual core 1Ghz processor, it should be OK) or your connection at the time of testing was slower than you were measuring before.

There was EU soccer on tonight, more people streaming could mean your area was congested, I’ve had that happen to me before. When there’s congestion in the local coax segment you have to drop way below your subscription specs to keep bufferbloat at bay unfortunately. 

But I’m glad it has improved your connection at least :)